Personal Note: Bad liturgists. No biscuit.

[nebroadwe]

This is me ranting about the liturgical idiom of my faith community, a topic almost certainly of no interest to anyone except perhaps kanja177 and nateprentice, so behold! A cut!

I was looking ahead in the Roman Catholic liturgical year to Lent, stocking up on hymns at the website of the National Association of Pastoral Musicians, when I ran across the following directive regarding the reading of the Passion on Palm Sunday:

If you intend to read the Passion Narrative in parts, the traditional division is threefold: narrator, Christ, and crowd (all other voices). Some communities expand the number of voices, though it is probably not a good idea to give the congregation the "people's part" of this narrative, because that puts them in an adversarial relationship to Jesus. Instead, they should experience themselves as sharing not only in the sin that led to Jesus' death but also in his act of self-sacrifice to which they will soon join themselves once more in the Eucharist. Therefore, it might be good to proclaim this reading with the traditional three readers (which helps to hold attention), but break it at several points for a sung acclamation by the people.

Gah. Lookit. This is a development that's been gaining some momentum over the past couple of decades, but I do not like it and will not support it, for two reasons. First of all, it's boring. I've attended Masses where the congregation got to sing a little acclamation every now and then while the presider and a privileged couple of lectors got to proclaim all the interesting bits, and I nearly nodded off. Long gospel is long. Long gospel is also a fascinating piece of narrative, and ever since I was a child I've enjoyed playing my role in it, whether I was one of those privileged lectors or just J. Random Congregant. (The year I went to the Cathedral and heard the whole thing chanted, which I admit was pretty darn cool, I just picked up the chant line after the first few iterations and joined in with the choir on the crowd bits.) Having a part to play is the best way I know to "hold attention" -- you can't lose track of the narrative when you know you've got a line coming up soon that you have to say or the whole exercise grinds to a halt.

Second of all, I know no better antidote to an anti-Semitic interpretation of the Passion than having to say, year after year, "If he were not a criminal, we would not have handed him over to you" and "Crucify him! Crucify him!" and "We have no king but Caesar." An adversarial relationship with Jesus Christ? Yes -- but that's my daily life as a sinner; I just use different phrases to deny him. Twice a year I call a spade a spade. Ten minutes later I'll experience a different aspect of the story, whether in the Eucharistic prayer on Palm Sunday or the veneration of the cross on Good Friday, when I remember the solidarity I also have with him. And I am that much less inclined to make the crucifixion a story about Those People Who Killed God -- in fact, when I first learned about that interpretation, while I was in grade school, I found it ridiculous, because I knew the story wasn't about that. After all, weren't we the ones saying, "Crucify him!"? That's because it was our diseases he bore, our common human infirmities that he carried, just like the other reading says, right?

tl;dr: Don't take the crowd parts away from the congregation during the reading of the Passion narrative on Palm Sunday and Good Friday. You know not what you do.

Comments

[evil-little-dog.livejournal.com]

I like your thinking. COM took me to an Easter Mass once (which was quite fun, the church didn't burn down or anything - and was nice enough that it didn't notice li'l ol' pagan me - or overlooked me in the glory of everything - some churches will not do that), and I enjoyed the whole thing (except for not being able to understand word one that the guest pastor was speaking, as his accent was...indescribable. Beautiful, but...).

The following Easter, we walked six blocks to the temple in Cassadaga and attended the Spiritualists' service. COM walked out of there with wide eyes, saying, "We had to hold hands! WE HAD TO HOLD HANDS!"

*giggles*

Anyway, I agree - my mind drifts off when people start talking for long periods of time. As a child during service, I usually wound up reading the lyrics.

What does "tl;dr" mean?

[nateprentice.livejournal.com]

Amen, nebroadwe.

Might as well watch it on TV.

[lyrangalia]

too long; didn't read ;)

[lyrangalia]

Well, that's just being silly. I mean, I get the same vibe as you, that by taking the crowd's part, we are in fact accepting our own adversarial relationship with Christ. (I find it hard to trust church people who say it's all a cake walk with roses and sunshine.)

Leave it to a few bad apples to spoil a good spiritual thing.

Although growing up very Southern Baptist, I never experienced any of the more traditional aspects of Christian services until college. That was a shock.

[evil-little-dog.livejournal.com]

Cool. Thank you.

[cornerofmadness.livejournal.com]

they've taken them away at a couple catholic churchs i went to a few years back before giving up entirely. and/or changed the word Jew in the passion so it would see less anti-Semitic. I found it very odd

[ishte.livejournal.com]

I am, as you probably know, a non-Christian, being a Gaian priestess, but I totally get you on this. The whole point was that Jesus OWN people, the people he was trying to teach turned him in and called for his death to protect themselves. So they were at that time (early Christians before there were actually Christians in a VERY adversarial position with their own Christ. But according to their beliefs, he saved them anyway.

I can definitely understand your frustration with churches dumbing down your faith and/or making it more 'politically correct'. I will always strive against the PC option. It is never correct and rarely really politic either. It's usually just inaccurate at best, and dead wrong at worst.

[nebroadwe.livejournal.com]

I like your thinking. COM took me to an Easter Mass once (which was quite fun, the church didn't burn down or anything - and was nice enough that it didn't notice li'l ol' pagan me - or overlooked me in the glory of everything - some churches will not do that) ...

We invite furriners to Easter all the time, because that's the one time in the year when my current church really Does It Up (apart Christmas, but no one's here for that -- university town): pretty flowers, lots of candles, incense, jingly bells, the best people reading and serving, usually about six or eight people joining the church with all the hoopla that implies, all the little choirs getting together and attempting stuff we don't normally have the time or personnel to do on our own (everything from chant to folk to classical). It's exhausting but fun, and our guests mostly enjoy the spectacle. Then we feed 'em afterwards and they roll home happy.

... and I enjoyed the whole thing (except for not being able to understand word one that the guest pastor was speaking, as his accent was...indescribable. Beautiful, but...).

Oh, yeah. The US is on its way back to being a Catholic mission field -- of all my acquaintance over the years, I know exactly two guys who decided to become priests. So my mom's church, frex, has had a series of Filipino associate pastors over the past fifteen years. They're great at what they do, but sometimes their accents are a little thick. Even I had to think hard about the context of one sermon to translate "a parcel" into "apostle."

Anyway, I agree - my mind drifts off when people start talking for long periods of time. As a child during service, I usually wound up reading the lyrics.

Yeah, if there's nothing to do, why be there? I come to church for the singing, myself. :-) (I remember once being at a stratospherically high Anglican service, which is still rather like the Catholic Mass before Vatican II. The choir gave most of the responses that I'd normally expect to be doing myself, and I suddenly realized why people of my mom's generation so often resorted to saying a rosary all through Mass. There wasn't anything else for them to do -- everything was being done on their behalf by somebody else. I'd probably have gone that route myself, if I couldn't join the choir.)

[nebroadwe.livejournal.com]

That's it! It's all a plot by EWTN to increase viewership! :-)

[nebroadwe.livejournal.com]

Well, that's just being silly. I mean, I get the same vibe as you, that by taking the crowd's part, we are in fact accepting our own adversarial relationship with Christ. (I find it hard to trust church people who say it's all a cake walk with roses and sunshine.)

Something else at play here may be the sense that people don't want to do their part, so it comes out in a mumble. I've had a few liturgists bring that up when this gets discussed, and I always want to say, "Look -- we're Catholics. Anything we haven't said every Sunday since we were five comes out in a mumble. We even forget what we're supposed to be doing at weddings and funerals, and it's the same format as any other Mass with a few added bits. How about training us out of the sheeplike attitude toward liturgy instead?"

Okay, I wouldn't actually say that last bit, but I'd try to strongly imply it.

Although growing up very Southern Baptist, I never experienced any of the more traditional aspects of Christian services until college. That was a shock.

I'd bet. I like going on liturgical field trips to other people's services; widened horizons are a good thing. I remember being kind of startled at how similar in shape the more formally-liturgically-minded Protestant denominations' services are to the ones I attend every week. And then thinking that well, duh, we all still want to do the same things (sing, acknowledge our sinfulness and redemption, read the stories, hear a lesson, and gather around the table in communion with God and one another) even if we disagree on the import of those things theologically. It's the very low church hour-of-praise-and-worship with minimal organizing principles that I found really odd, myself, because that's not what I came out of. One of these days I need to visit a Quaker meeting to hear how the mostly-silent version of that works.

[nebroadwe.livejournal.com]

I'll give them that last one to some extent, as a corrective to some very bad theology and history -- particularly with John's gospel, which tends to be totalizing in its portrayal of "the Jews" as the Bad Guys. I think the current research on that posits a bad relationship between the Johannine community and its surrounding Jewish milieu at about the time it was becoming clear that Christians weren't going to be another strain of Judaism, like Essenes or Sadducees or Pharisees, but were becoming another religion. IIRC, one of the current official teaching points on Good Friday is that "the Jews" of John's rhetoric are better understood historically as a) some of the guys in positions of authority in the Jewish community at the time and b) not the Jews of today. (Duh, but, again, due to the heritage of bad theology/history/sociology on this point, it has to be said.) I believe the official translation used on Good Friday does add the odd clarifying phrase in this direction, or reduce the adversarial group to an unmarked "they" when useful, but I'd have to check it against a Greek interlinear to make sure ...

[nebroadwe.livejournal.com]

We're in a liturgically conservative pendulum swing at the moment over in RC-land -- keep your ears peeled over the next three years for the howls likely to erupt when the new English translation of the Mass texts are introduced. (It's likely to be quite amusing to outsiders.) I've seen 'em and am not impressed. The current "politically correct" thinking about translations is that they should be as literal as possible, but also beautiful, which means they're both grammatically stilted and prone to urple prose, because nothing says beautiful like thesaurus abuse. (Honestly, sometimes it reads like bad liturgical fanfiction. There's an American bishop whose name I can't remember just now who's been a real gadfly on this point in the discussions over this stuff. Go him!) The current translations aren't perfect, either, but they're much more dynamic (in the "let's get the sense of this translated and have the grammar follow"). Given that Greek, and to a lesser extent Latin, does not structure itself as English does, grammatical literalism is IMO a great way to confuse the heck out of people, but sadly I have no say in these matters. Oh, well. We'll deal with it somehow.

[cornerofmadness.livejournal.com]

can't argue with you there

[nateprentice.livejournal.com]

I was thinking the same thing!

[nebroadwe.livejournal.com]

Great minds ...

[nebroadwe.livejournal.com]

[gets down off soapbox and retires bashfully]

[cornerofmadness.livejournal.com]

haha

[evil-little-dog.livejournal.com]

translations is that they should be as literal as possible, but also beautiful, which means they're both grammatically stilted and prone to urple prose

..."urple prose"? *giggles*

However, I get the point completely. I still want to read the Bible that COM's dad has, that's a direct translation, rather than a translation from the King James, just to see what it says. COM and I have a friend who's a Druid Priest, who's very good friends with the family line who printed the original King James. They have some very good stories, he says, about what King James wanted and didn't want in the Bible. Unfortunately, they've been sworn to silence, even still, and are not allowed to share the...stories.

[evil-little-dog.livejournal.com]

As I said, I don't mind going to services, however, sometimes I feel remarkably uncomfortable within the confines of a church (my sister's church is one of them; I went and started shaking about halfway through the service). We also went to the Tiffany Museum, which has the Tiffany Church inside - a little tiny thing that was at the NY World's Fair and is gorgeous - once I get past the doorways, I start feeling literally ill. Despite how pretty it is. COM, of course, came to life and started bouncing around (and I'm the bouncy one) - I felt like I was getting shocked whenever I touched anything. *laugh*

Feeding me afterwards is always, always good. I should post the pictures I took at the Red Mass I went to last year - Atty and I were going to go but she backed out at the very last minute because she thought it would be "wrong of her" to step foot in a Catholic church. *blink*

The Mass COM took me to had their guest speaker over from Africa. His accent wasn't quite British, ifyaknowwhatImean.

I enjoyed being in the choir, though I'll admit my voice needs a lot more training if I was going to sing again. *grin*

[nebroadwe.livejournal.com]

..."urple prose"? *giggles*

Like purple prose, only it makes you gulp back the stomach acids. :-) I think it's a fanficrantsism. :-)

However, I get the point completely. I still want to read the Bible that COM's dad has, that's a direct translation, rather than a translation from the King James, just to see what it says.

I have classicist geek friends, so we're prone to yanking out the Greek interlinear to check translations when we're having a theological argument. (We reduced ourselves to tears once, though, checking our favorite passages in The Message (http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/index.php?action=getVersionInfo&vid=65&lang=2), a very ... dynamic translation. E.g. Genesis 1:11: "God spoke: 'Earth, green up!'" We still quote that one every now and then.) My favorite translation is probably still the first edition of the Jerusalem Bible, which J.R.R. Tolkien worked on, among other people. It's a very nice compromise between literal sense and graceful writing. Heh. SF people: we're in ur churchez, translatin ur Biblez.

[nebroadwe.livejournal.com]

As I said, I don't mind going to services, however, sometimes I feel remarkably uncomfortable within the confines of a church (my sister's church is one of them; I went and started shaking about halfway through the service).

Ouch. That's a bummer. My dad's not into organized religion, so he's always rather off-balance when we drag him to a church service (weddings and funerals, mostly, but when my growing-up parish named my mom Mother of the Year, I had to get quite firm with him to make sure he came. I mean, it would have looked really odd for him not to be there. I think he was afraid they were going to make him get up and say something. They didn't.). He doesn't get physical reactions, though. He just grumbles about the fact that Catholics set out to make their services incomprehensible. Which is one reason why I'm the queen of the explanatory wedding program these days. Anyone who attends a service with which I'm associated is going to know what's happening in what order and sometimes why. Occasionally with footnotes. :-) It's a hospitality thing.

Feeding me afterwards is always, always good.

If you feed them, they will come. :-) We're not above bribery.

I should post the pictures I took at the Red Mass I went to last year - Atty and I were going to go but she backed out at the very last minute because she thought it would be "wrong of her" to step foot in a Catholic church. *blink*

Because she's a ... lawyer? [blink, blink]

I enjoyed being in the choir, though I'll admit my voice needs a lot more training if I was going to sing again. *grin*

Go, go! Sing, sing! (Sorry, that's a spinal reflex at this point. It's heck running a choir in a university church -- you can't ever stop recruiting, because almost no one's here beyond four or five years. Sigh.)

[evil-little-dog.livejournal.com]

E.g. Genesis 1:11: "God spoke: 'Earth, green up!'"

*dies*

SF people: we're in ur churchez, translatin ur Biblez.

No lie: I never got the whole "Narnia is a Biblical Allegory" thing when I was younger and at least a Christian in name and reading the Bible...er...religiously. It took college and finding The Screwtape Letters to read while I was in between classes that made me realize just what my YA memories were about.

[evil-little-dog.livejournal.com]

Which is one reason why I'm the queen of the explanatory wedding program these days. Anyone who attends a service with which I'm associated is going to know what's happening in what order and sometimes why. Occasionally with footnotes. :-) It's a hospitality thing.

The SCA would love you.

We're not above bribery.

I don't mind honest bribery but seriously? I'm here to study architecture most of the time. ;) I'm always fascinated by architecture.

Because she's a ... lawyer? [blink, blink]

Because Catholicism is not her religion.

Hahaha...usually, there isn't a choir in the type of places I'm likely to attend - besides, solo practitioner.

[nebroadwe.livejournal.com]

I don't mind honest bribery but seriously? I'm here to study architecture most of the time. ;) I'm always fascinated by architecture.

You and my friend the historic preservation specialist -- the one who suggested we announce that everything was starting in the back at today's service by inviting the congregation to turn and face the retrofacade. :-)

"Because she's a ... lawyer? [blink, blink]"

Because Catholicism is not her religion.

Darn. I was hoping it's because she'll burst into flames if she sets foot on holy ground, due to that pact she made with the infernal powers that permits her not to go bankrupt no matter how slap-dashily she conducts her business.

Hahaha...usually, there isn't a choir in the type of places I'm likely to attend - besides, solo practitioner.

The possibility of having a choir is the best argument I know against going solo. :-) Every religious community should SING!

[evil-little-dog.livejournal.com]

the one who suggested we announce that everything was starting in the back at today's service by inviting the congregation to turn and face the retrofacade.

HAHAHA.

I was hoping it's because she'll burst into flames if she sets foot on holy ground

Oh, she's a good Christian. Just ask her. *eyeroll*

Every religious community should SING!

I do! I usually make up little things to sing when I'm Working. I just never can remember them later...except for the spell to remove warts. That one is too easy.

[nebroadwe.livejournal.com]

No lie: I never got the whole "Narnia is a Biblical Allegory" thing when I was younger and at least a Christian in name and reading the Bible...er...religiously.

Me, neither. I just thought it was a good story. But allegory has never been my bag, so ...

Have I mentioned that I read Exodus/Leviticus over and over about the same time I was discovering LOTR, and probably for the same reason -- all the world-building? I had a kind of a strange view of the Bible as a tot.

[evil-little-dog.livejournal.com]

I had a kind of a strange view of the Bible as a tot.

I remember being highly disturbed by all the rapine and pillaging done in the Old Testament. It still disturbs me, though I know it was going on everywhere (and still happens to this date).

[nebroadwe.livejournal.com]

I didn't really notice those bits, despite being a fan of the history books. Now I do, of course. I also was bored silly then by the psalms and the wisdom literature, but that might have been because the translation I was reading reduced all the lovely poetry to the dullest of prose.

[evil-little-dog.livejournal.com]

Being one for action adventure stories, I remember being impressed with some of the battles but then the heroes would do something stupid and I'd get irritated. *giggles*

[nebroadwe.livejournal.com]

I never could understand what David saw in that Bathsheba chick (though she was pretty savvy when it came to promoting her son to the throne over all those other claimants. Heh.).

[evil-little-dog.livejournal.com]

That is one of the stories I was thinking of, indeed.

[nebroadwe.livejournal.com]

Have you seen the Veggie Tales version, by any chance? (It also happens to be a parody of The Madness of King George. I haven't kept up with recent developments in this franchise, but the early stuff is very smart and charming -- just witty enough that the moral lessons don't come off as tendentious or saccharine.)

[evil-little-dog.livejournal.com]

I don't have any young enough children around to see the Veggie Tales though I do hear good things about them from sources.